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St.Paddy
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:19 pm    Post subject: Collisions Reply with quote

The other day one of my brand new supertankers was approaching a port when it was struck by another large vessel. Fortunately, the crew were unharmed but the damage to my ship resulted in a condition of 62%. So there I was left with a cargo of over 250000 tons of MDO in the holds for another port but I could not risk putting to sea with the ship in that condition. Sad

Fortunately, I had plenty of time to deliver the cargo but, unfortunately, I could not find a nearby port with a dry dock large enough to accomodate my ship in order that the necessary repairs could be carried out. Sad Sad

I always like to look after my ships - I select a maintenance level of 'Gleaming' every time I start a game. So my solution to the problem was simply to lay-up the ship in port for a few weeks whilst the crew repaired her and set sail again when I felt that the ships condition had improved enough to survive a crossing of the southern Pacific. So off she went and continued to 'repair herself' whilst at sea. By the time she reached her final port she was spick and span again!

The point I am making is that this is all very unrealistic. There is no way a ship should be able to 'repair itself' over a brief period of time having recovered from a condition of 62%! It would require dry-docking. Rolling Eyes

Is there any way that, when a ship is involved in a major incident resulting in its condition deteriorating in excess of, say 10% of what it was before the incident, the game will not allow the ship to 'repair itself' but will require the ship to be dry-docked before it may resume working commercially? Could there be further conditions imposed on this as well...

1. That the ship's condition will not improve even by 0.1% until it has been dry docked?

2. That the cargo will require to be transferred to another ship before she is dry-docked (Seen this request before in another context I think).

3. That, if necessary, tugs will have to be called (at the discretion of the ship owner) to tow the ship to the port selected for the repairs, together with the expense of hiring them. If required the tugs should not be immediately available - perhaps a list of ports with sea-going tugs could be introduced - say, a dozen or so for each continent.

Finally, could a list of nearby ports with dry-dock facilities, together with their maximum limits and prices, be made which can be easily accessed when something like this happens?

Over to you RDK!! Very Happy
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rdklein
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes we can improve this part of course - i will put a note on the todo
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Christian Todt
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think the point in maintainance is that the ususal decreasing of the ships condidtion is slower than without maintainance and so it should be in the game also.

unlike st. paddy i do not care about a condition of 62 percent
although i mostly try to keep my ships in good condition.
but sometimes i wait until the ship has a condidtion of 55 percent
and repair the ship then....

CT
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St.Paddy
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes I totally agree with Christian that the decreasing of the ships condition should continue in the game - its just that if you are involved in an incident - a collision, or major damage due to weather, if you have selected a higher maintenance rate, over a period of time (days in some cases) the ship is repaired automatically.

In the case of a major collision there would be severe hull damage. I do not think that you can realistically expect the 'crew' to rectify that! This could only - and should only - be rectified by a visit to a shipyard, together with the expense of diverting a ship from other duties to transfer the cargo over before dry-docking can take place and the use of tugs to get the vessel to the yard if necessary - with all the extra expenses this would involve as they would have to be hired on a daily basis.

Hence, my request for what I stated above! Very Happy
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Bartigol
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with St. Paddy in dry-docking should be forced in some way. I always maintain the highest maintenance level which results in self-repairing ships.

Due to my exerience the cost is way lower than repairing the ships in a dry-dock. Buy two low cost ships put one into dry-dock repair up to like 83% and let one sail with highest maintenance level. It'll self-repair itself to the same condition in very short time (2-3 months?) for way less money. Also the ship that is sailing is making money while the other one is in dry-dock.

As the cost for highest possible maintenance even for 3000 TEU container vessels is as low as 4000-5000 $ /day (1.5mio $/year) dry-docking seems pretty much useless to me.

All based on experience on "advanced" game level.

However, before collision handling is introduced the way St. Paddy discribed, a change in AI ships behaviour will be necessary.

I once had to berth my ULCC tanker manually at the replacement harbour and this stupid fisherboat that is always going back and forth crashed right into me. I was going like 2.5 knots at that time. That fisherman couldn't have possibly have overseen my not so tiny 450000+ tdw supertanker. And as far as I know smaller ships always have to give way to bigger ones.

I wouldn't complain if I entered a harbour full steaming and running right over that fisherboat. I also like to have obstacles. But being a non-moving obstacle myself and then crashed into shouldn't be my fault.
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Munsman
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm. A common misunderstanding that smaller ships give way to bigger ones. It's not true. Look up COLREG or the Collision Regulations, and you will find no mention of size there. So yes, you have to give way to the small vessel with your 45000000000000000000000 GT vessel! Good luck (hahaha).

btw: Good improvement you mentioned St. Paddy!
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Bartigol
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well ok, so the fisherman probably was a crasher who made a living by crashing into other near immobile vessels in order to claim the repair cost and repair his boat only provisionary afterwards until the next crash.
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Frankfly
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi.
In some situations small ships shall always give way to bigger ships. You can't expect a supertanker to give way for a smaller/sailing ship due to it's sice and how long it takes to steer clear of the other ship.
This is a link to the international rules on how you should avoid collitions
http://www.stormy.ca/marine/colregs/rule18.htm
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Munsman
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The vessel with restricted manoeuverability that is mentioned, applies only to those vessels resticted in manoeuverability by the work that they do (diving, dredging etc). Has nothing to do with size. They have to display red-white-red or ball-diamond-ball

Only when a large vessel is constrained (read: In a canal / river / etc) and displays 3 red lights and/or a black cilinder, a smaller vessel should give way.
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Superhai
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ship condition and ship damage should be two values. Condition should be detoriating during the life of the ship and rate should follow the price you pay for the onboard mechanic/"line"-maintenance program. Damage could be responding to events like storm and crashes which needs heavy maintenance done in drydocks. Low condition should cause events to yield higher damage. The values should be linked, like i.e. condtition could not go above damage. Like in the example of hull damage, a ship which have perfect condition still will need repair. Low condtion could also be the factors that creates damage.
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Munsman
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Second that!!
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